So when you're first learning to hold the Katana, it's important to understand that it's very different from a baseball bat. You want to actually grip it in your hand at about a 45 degree angle. And more or less, grasp it firmly with the pinkie and the ring finger, and then a little bit more loosely with the middle and the index finger. And same for the rear hand. It's going to rest in my hand at about a 45 degree angle, okay just like so. And this is about the distance between the two hands. Not here, together, they're really as far apart as I can get them, while still maintaining that 45 degree angle. And so that's how I want to be able to hold the sword so I can get a pushing and pulling type of motion. And that's just a little bit about how to hold the sword properly.